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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  January 3, 2013 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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delegation to congress. we're a diverse country with diverse ideas. but the greatness of america comes when we're able to find common ground. the failure of the last congress was that the tea party extremists refused to work together. for them, compromise is a bad word. we're counting on all of the members of the new congre congress-democrats and republicans. to reach across partisan lines and work for the good of all americans. as we welcome this new congress, folks, i hope that one idea that we can call on can be agreed on by all. you know, being proud of what you are only grows when you learn to deal with others and appreciate them. only insecure people are afraid of things that are not identical to them. if you're really proud of what you are, embrace people on the other side and learn how to make
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the country stronger. it will strengthen you. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. >> deficit masquerade. let's play "hardball." if you watch the follies of the fiscal cliff negotiation, you surely heard one thing, republicans want to cut the deficit. here's a headline for you, no, they don't. republicans are hiding behind deficit cutting to mask their true goals, protecting the rich from taxing the government. also, the best news of the day, the 112th congress is history. and it made history in many
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ways. the least productive, most unpopular congress since people have been tracking this sort of thing, the 113th can't be worse, can it? plus, speaker john boehner was shamed into scheduling a vote on hurricane sandy relief after being humiliated by fellow republicans. is it possible that the house didn't vote because a southern, rural, right-winged republican party just doesn't care about the northeast? nchtsz and, a debate heats up over a newspaper that published the names and addresses of every gun permit holder in two new york county areas. now the paper wants to do it for a third county, but the county clerk says no way. and, remember this? >> barack obama is the worst president in history. >> that's congressman ben quail walking off camera. now, he's walking out of the capitol. one of the many members of
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congress we won't see this term, but whom you will see in the side show. we begin with whether republicans are building the deficit msnbc chief economist to vice president. gentlemen, allow me to read something to you that was published today. if the on going war between republicans and democrats was really over those future budget deficits, you might consider republicans and dem krats focusing on ways to hold down costs. it's not what this war is about. it's about the size of govt. tea party republicans want the government to be much smaller. jaret, i say yes, but, surely a $16 trillion debt is serious business and requires attention. >> absolutely. in fact, if you look -- i don't really do the pox on both of
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their discussions. if you look at it, it's accurate. if you look at the offer that the president made in mid-december, or if you look at the president's budget, he actually accomplishes a shared debt over the budget window. and it involves tax increases and spending cuts. where i think the hi pock k hi is so clear here, it's -- i'm thinking of the congressional budget office, major scorekeeper in this town agrees. you simply can't achieve a sustainable budget without both. we have a group of republicans who were stone walled on boet and were only recently forced to swallowing what is actually a relati relatively small increase after we already cut a trillion in spending. >> why should it be measured as a percentage of gdp? why is that the appropriate way to go? >> that's a great question.
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as the economy and the population gets larger, we're going to, by definition, spend more. i was arguing with someone today, i was pointing out that in order to stabilize the debt, we need $1.2 trillion over the next ten years. that's just the way the math works out given these recent deals. they're saying one trillion, that's a big number. it's a half of percent of the the gdp over the next year. >> bob schrumm, let ee's talk at the politics of this. if the house republicans are in this, then i'm here to argue that surely their constituents are not. i take telephone calls from them each and every day. my father fixed that sort of mold of an old-school republican that easter fied over a $16 trillion debt. >> first of all, they want to hide behind the rubric of reducing spending. the truth is, and grover
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norquist has said this, sort of the high priest of republican economics in the tea party, they want to starve the government. they want to shred the social safety next. they lost the last election. not only that, they lost the last century. now they'd like to repeal much of the new deal and get rid of health care reform. but secondly, the hi pock ra see, where did it come from. it came from an unfunded prescription drug benefit, the set of decisions that led to the bush economic collapse in 2008. if you put all of that together, that's responsible for most of this debt. and, by the way, the people that are now talking about spending cuts and we really have to reduce the size of government were the folks who brought us all of that. >> but were you saying as a political matter, they're aware of the concern that exists among their constituents. people who call a talk radio program like mine and they're
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using that as a subterfuge to get what they really desire, which is to reduce the size of government. >> oh, sure. and the reason that they talk about "entitlement reform," with the the leadership itself, at least, will not put out specific proposals. what they want to do is very unpopular, even in constituents in deep red districts. they don't want to see social security privatized. they don't want to see the age on medicare raised. now, there are some changes that you can make, and jared can describe it, as part of a bargain. >> i think to your point, and jared, you know this, i'm sure. paul kruben has called economic rhetoric a con-game. when you put republicans on the spot and demand specifics about how they're going to make good on their posturing on spending and deficits, they come up empty. republicans claim to be for much
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smaller government, but, as a political matter, they've always attacked government spending in the abstract nevada coming clean with the public only if we sharply curtail all popular programs. when i read that quote, what i immediately think of is the debate where governor romney identified big bird because the best that he could come up with in termings of a cut was pbs, which i think makes the point. >> michael, it's a lot worse than that. you may recall that president obama, through the affordable care act, generated 700 in the entitlements. no, they attacked them for those cuts. and they said we'll put it back in. so the hipocrasey is very deep. this is a little economic. just do this thought experiment.
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suppose you found an honest republican, and there are some, who said we can balance the bungt. if we collect 25% of gdp in revenue and spend 25% in out leis, those balances are out. they would run from you in horror. they're not interested in balancing the budget. they're interested in shrinking the government. however, when it actually comes to plans, trugman is partially right. now, there are republicans who talk about block-granting medicaid. who talk about premium support. they're going after poor people while cutting taxes for the rich people. >> the deficit does not only come from the right. bob schrumm, the president is always talking about the need to control the debt and deficit. >> as jared presented earlier, he would obtain a budget and then continue to reduce it over a period of time.
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the gop paid no attention to it in december. he was willing to enter into a grand bargain. he was willing to enter into a grand bargain before. you have the republican party enthralled to the tea party. you have a speaker of the house that's now a zombie. i never thought i'd say this, but it's quite extraordinary that mitch mcconnell stepped forward, engaged with vice president biden who, by the way, did a spectacular job. that's how we've overted going off the fiscal cliff. now, what's going to happen when we get to removal of the debt is not clear. >> i want to quickly talk about that. take a look at what pat thome talked about yet on "morning show." >> our opportunity here is on the debt creting. the president has made it very clooer. he doesn't even want to have a discussion about it because he knows this is where we have leverage. we republicans need to be willing to tolerate a temporary
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partial government shutdown, which is what that could mean. >> so if the president stands his ground, and i'm not negotiating on that issue, where are we going? >> well, i mean, when the president says i'm not negotiating, what i very, very deeply hope he means is that i will override by my constitutional authority, those crazies who would default not only damaging our economy and defaulting on debt that's held around the world. but, really, you know, hurting the global economy. and so, when he says i won't negotiate, i take that to mean i'm not going to play that game. i'm not going to let them hold us hostage. listen, i've got to make one quick point. all of this talk about debt, fiscal policy, the deaf sits, i get calls about this, too. but the thing about it is his jobs, his earnings, his family income.
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one of the things this economy has done, that politicians no longer think about what this has done to people. all of those things that i mentioned are way above the deficit in terms of people's primary concerns. >> bob bob, a final political question. i think what isn't communicated to the american people is we're talking about making good on the obligations that the government has already made. >> kpaktly. congress already voted to spend this money. if you defaumt on this, if you destroy the full faith and credit of the united states, you could have an event that would be lehman-like. >> i just wanted to make that clear. thank you. up next, good riddance to the 112th congress who was the least effective congress in decades. but will the 113th congress, which was just sworn in today, be any better. >> this is "hardball."
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>> so help you god? congratulations, you're now a member of the 113th congress. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. when you're carrying a lot of weight, c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg.
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say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid. john boehner won re-election as house speaker today, but not every republican was behind him. nine republicans voted for somebody else, and two of them, georgia's paul brown and louis gohmert of texas, actually voted for ex-florida congressman alan west. remember him? the guy who said there are about 80 communists in the democratic caucus? brown and gohmert are two of the more outspoken members of congress. back in september brown said evolution was straight from the pit of hell, and gohmert, who has repeatedly questioned president obama's citizenship, has suggested the obama administration is in cahoots with the muslim brotherhood. we'll be right back.
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if you come here humbled by the opportunity to serve, if you've come here to be the determined voice of the people, if you've come here to carry the standard of leadership demanded not by our constituents but by the times, then you've come to the right place. [ applause ] >> welcome back to "hardball." that was newly re-elected speaker john boehner encouraging members to rise above partisanship and get to work as the 113th congress was sworn in. and not a moment too soon. it would be hard to do worse than the 112th. they were the least productive congress on record passing far fewer bills than the last two preceding congresses and even fewer than the famous do-nothing congress of 1947-1948. but it's not just they were unproductive, they were actively counterproductive as ezra klein points outs in bloomberg today. the 112th almost shut down government, almost breached the debt ceiling, and almost went
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over the fiscal cliff. all crises of their own making. ezra klein is also an msnbc political analyst and "washington post" columnist. robert costa is the washington editor at national review and a cnbc contributor. gentlemen, the 112th congress was not only unproductive, it was hugely unpopular. for comparison's sake, the irs, nixon during watergate and bp during the oil spill all had higher popularity ratings than this congress, and yet, ezra klein, if the objective was to thwart all things obama, you could say they were immensely successful. >> and yet they weren't because the overarching strategy was to eventually thwart obama himself, to get him not re-elected, to allow mitt romney or whoever was the republican nominee for president, to become president in 2012 thus fulfilling what senate minority leader mitch mcconnell once referred to as his top priority.
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that didn't work at all. the republican brand was so tarnished in part because of the actions of the 112th congress, in part because of the way republicans acted around things like the debt ceiling, that in the end president obama was re-elected with a quite large margin and democrats got more votes in the senate and even in the house despite the fact that they didn't win back control of the majority due to redistricting and the apportionment of house districts nationwide. if the overarching strategy was to have nothing happen in washington and have people take it out on the democrats, that didn't work out for them. >> take for instance the fiscal cliff situation, we have a short-term fix. that you would attribute to the obstructionism in the house that he faced, wouldn't you? >> the fiscal cliff was constructed at least in part by the 112th, but again it didn't work out very well for them. nobody got a big deal. but at this point in time we'll see how the next deal turns out, president obama and the democrats got $630 billion in revenue and there was not a spending cut added. of course, to that ledger you need to add the 2011 budget
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control act which included more than a trillion dollars in spending cuts but there's not much evidence republicans have had a great time achieving their policies in the last year. >> robert, i know you were there today for the re-election of speaker boehner. any backstory of significance? >> it's a major backstory. speaker boehner came into the election today trying to reclaim the gavel and he was able to do it with relative ease. he got 220 votes on the house floor, but what happened was a lot of drama on the house floor as that name by name roll call was called. you had nine house conservatives vote for different people. we heard about alan west, david walker, the former comptroller general, there was a lot of disarray. you had the big names like paul ryan, kevin mccarthy, they all backed the speaker. boehner is going to have a tough time moving forward controlling his caucus. they showed many of them are
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willing to vote against him. >> is the 113th going to be different in any significant way than the congress that's just left us? >> i think it's going to be quite different, and we can already tell why. in a conference meeting yesterday, john boehner went into front of his conference and he said no more grand bargains, no more closed door negotiations with the president. that was really the story of the 112th congress. you had speaker boehner almost detached from his caucus going to the white house trying to huddle with the president, get a grand bargain. that collapsed. boehner went in front of his group and colleagues and said no more of that. that means it's going to be very hard to have some kind of fiscal deal in the new congress. >> ezra, to what do you attribute this climate of partisanship? much has been written and said about it particularly in the last couple months. >> look, congressional polarization, party polarization is a long-term trend in american political life. it has a lot to do with the break down of race as a
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governing principle. southern democrats who were quite conservative but staying there for reasons related to civil rights and seniority went into the republican party. and race began to fall away as the organizing principle in life. so the parties became more ideological separate from one another. democrats agreeing with democrats, republicans agreeing with republicans. as that happened, they began to act as units. we don't have a political system set up very well for parties to act as units. the founders didn't want there to be parties at all. they were very against factions even though they went on to create a number of them. the 112th was a culmination of a lot of trends we've been seeing over the last 40 or 50 years. and the composition of the congress in which you had a republican speaker from the republican minority in the house. you had a very slim democratic majority in the senate that was subject to the filibuster and a democratic president the republicans were trying to defeat was a perfect cocktail for this paralysis and polarization but i'm not
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optimistic about the 113th because even if they do try to do things through regular order, these same underlying dynamics are still governing what's happening in congress right now. >> one of the things that's troubling, the national journal has done a great job in documenting this by taking the ideological temperature of congress for the last 30 years, and they find that every democrat, i'll focus on the senate, every democrat in the senate is more liberal than every republican. every republican more conservative than every democrat and you might think, well, isn't that always the case? it isn't. if you go back to the reagan '80s, 60% of the senate was somewhere in the middle, and couple that now with the nate silver analysis from just a couple days ago with the 538 blog where he points out that in the house of 435 districts, i think he said 35 of them are truly competitive, and the rest are not. they're hyperdistricts now. bob, you wanted to say something on this issue. >> with respect to both of you, those are compelling arguments,
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but there are two reasons i think there is hope for this new congress. one is that john boehner won re-election today. he was able to win even though there is a part of his caucus that is very much to the right, very conservative, and another part of his caucus, 85 members of the house republican conference voted to support the senate fiscal cliff deal. things are polarized, i'm not going to argue that. but the point is 85 republicans did vote for a deal, did vote for something that was bipartisan. does that mean everything is going to be perfect moving ahead? of course not. >> robert, costa's glass is half full, main is half empty. ezra, is your half full or empty. >> i don't have any water in my glass at all. if this fiscal cliff deal is success, that is not a good way to govern. it's not how to run a rail road. >> gentlemen, thank you for being here. >> thank you. up next, a special farewell to members of congress we won't miss. and one or two we will in the "sideshow." if you want to follow me on twitter, you just need to figure out how to spell smerconish.
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this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] there are only so many foods
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it's amazing what soup can do. back to "hardball." now to the "sideshow." today marks the start of the 113th congress, and that means we bid farewell to departing members. some are leaving by choice, others failed to win their bids for re-election. from the crowd that wanted to come back but last, there's arizona republican ben quayle who brought us this gem of a campaign ad in 2010. >> barack obama is the worst president in history. somebody has to go to washington and knock the hell out of the place. my name is ben quayle and i approve this message. >> this time around quayle faced a primary challenge due to redistricting and didn't make it to the general. joe walsh and alan west also got
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the boot. they haven't been strangers to the "hardball sideshow." >> don't blame banks and don't blame the marketplace for the mess we're in right now. i am tired of hearing that crap. you know what, this pisses me off. too many people don't listen. i need more cough. >> there are about 78 to 81 members of the democrat party that are members of the communist party. >> now so some senators who opted not to run for re-election. jon kyl of arizona. do you remember this? >> if you want an abortion, you go to planned parenthood and that's well over 90% of what planned parenthood does. >> that 90% figure is off by only 90%. as a kyl aide more or less admitted later saying, quote, his remark was not intended to be a factual statement.
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on to north dakota, democrat kent conrad, who is retiring and taking his dog, dakota, with him. according to "the new york times," dakota was often toted around by a staff member who tried valiantly to maintain his dignity as he cuddled the fluffy pet while its owner voted. kay bailey hutchinson also retiring from the senate will no longer be seen strolling the halls accompanied by that day's purse boy. that's the nickname given to the aides who were tasked with following the texas republican around carrying, believe it or not, her purse. and can't forget about south carolina's jim demint who's peacing out to make money and run the heritage foundation a conservative think tank. finally massachusetts democrat barney frank, the outgoing congressman who will remember for his total honesty in any situation, even here when he took to the house floor during a debate about air travel costs for then-speaker nancy pelosi. >> i just want to explain i hadn't really been expecting to be here but as i was walking by, i thought i heard someone yelling, "the plane, boss, the plane," and i wanted to come in and see what was happening.
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>> thank you for the memories. we will miss some of you. up next, why did house republicans wait so long to vote on hurricane sandy relief? could it be that a party that's mostly southern and rural doesn't care about the people in the mainly democratic northeast? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. if we took the already great sentra apart and completely reimagined it with best-in-class combined mpg, not to mention more interior room than corolla and civic, and a technology suite with bluetooth, navigation, and other handy stuff? ♪ yeah. that would be cool. ♪ introducing the all-new nissan sentra. it's our most innovative sentra ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪
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good evening, i'm tom llamas. here's tonight's headlines. students return to school today attending classes at a repurr bished school in a neerk town. google chairman and former new mexico governor bill richardson are planning to visit against the state department. auto sales are in showing a 13% increase in 2012. that's the best performance in five years. that's what's happening now. now, back to hardball.
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i knts imagine that type of indifference, that type of disregard, that cavalier attitude being shown to any other part of the country. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was peter king earlier this week out raged by the vote for sandy storm relief funds. republicans postponing the vote because of bias toward their home states. northeast republicans, like king, are a dying breed. back in the 90th congress, that was 1967, 1968, there were 47 in the united states.
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in today's 113th congress, just 26. can the gop, if it remains increasingly conservative, rural and southern and only appears to care about their own. >> good question. i think it's the chicken and egg answer, which is i don't know. one drives the other drives the other drives the other. initially the republican party became a southern party through the southern strategy pioneered by lee atwater years and years ago. that became kind of self-perpetuating and, of course, state legislatures started turning, republican seats got gerrymandered into safe republican seats. so there are a lot of factors
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there, but basically we're at a point now where the red states get redder and the blue states get bluer. >> susan, a lot of self-sorting at both ends of the spectrum i think is eugene's point. what accounts for that? >> well, first of all, i think people are self-selecting their communities. ear not only states but jurisdictions are getting redder and bluer, and that's reflected in congress. i think there's something else happening here, too, with immigration and with just, you know, just the racial breakdown of the country, the demographics. i think there's sort of more and more ever a resentment from some of these parts of america that a lot of people in the media used to call real america against these areas that are, you know, more ethnically diverse, more african-americans, more latinos, states that want gay marriage, that they perceive as liking big government. it gets rolled up into one big pass and i think peter king has a point where there's a sense
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that the northeast is this alien part of the country that doesn't live the way people think real americans should live. >> on that note, let me show you something else. congressman king and new jersey governor chris christie were outraged for what they saw to be this anti-northeastern bias and here is some of what they had to say. >> republicans have no trouble finding new york when it comes to raising money. and i would just say anyone from new york and new jersey who contributes one penny to congressional republicans after this should have their head examined. >> new jersey and new york are perennially among the most generous states in the nation to our fellow states. we vote for disaster relief for other states in need. we are donor states spending -- sending much more to washington, d.c., than we ever get back in federal spending. despite this history of unbridled generosity in our hour of desperate need, we have been left waiting for help six times longer than the victims of katrina with no end in sight.
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>> eugene, read the tea leaves for me. what is the real explanation as to this fumble on the part of the republican leadership in the house? was it a scheduling snafu or was it some inherent bias? >> well, you could call it bias. i think john boehner was just nervous about bringing up a bill that some of his more rural and conservative members would have a question about right after the fiscal cliff deal. i think he was, frankly, worried that today's vote might have turned out differently, today's vote for speaker might have turned out differently had he done that right then. and so, you know, you could say it's arguable that certainly for self-preservation that was a smart thing to do, but it clearly reinforced this feeling on the part of the few remaining northeastern republicans that they are the stepchildren of the party and that, you know, they're trying to get elected in what are pretty blue jurisdictions and they're not getting any help. >> here is something that will
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underscore that thought, susan. republican congressman tom price of georgia, a conservative that the national review last month called boehner's biggest threat, told wmal radio yesterday that the northeastern republicans were to plame for what many conservatives believe was a bad deal to avert the fiscal cliff. listen to what he said. >> the vote is really fascinating. if you look at the votes that were yes on the republican side, there were 85 of them, and 70 of them come from blue states. so i really think, and i have been talking about this for a couple months now, i think this is a red state/blue state issue when we were talking about previous, quote, solutions. it really broke down in our conference between those republicans who were from red states and those who were from blue states. it's a different conversation we need to have within our own conference as we move forward with the kinds of positive solutions that i know are out there. >> in other words he's castigating within his own party those coming from blue states. >> and there's always been
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regionalism in congress, usually around energy issue, coal state people versus oil state people and so forth, but this is a spending issue that becomes more ideological and even cultural than even just fiscal. so, you know, they look at the northeasterners and think they're big spenders. usually with something like disaster aid, that kind of stuff is put aside. as congressman king pointed out, it took six days for them -- excuse me, ten days to vote for that aid for katrina and it's been two months and, yes, speaker boehner i think was concerned he couldn't ask his caucus to vote for this right after they voted for that fiscal cliff, but i think some of the democrats i talked to today on the hill said or the northeasterners said he could have had this vote a month and a half ago. >> could web having a similar conversation about the composition of the house? >> i don't think so. democrats have been remarkably united. in the previous congress before boehner took over, nancy pelosi got stuff done and continues to keep the democratic caucus quite united. no, we couldn't have that same conversation right now. >> a political piece title the rage of the northeastern gop
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caught our eye. it brings up an important point. quote, regardless of how the debate plays out, you can bet the issue will be revisited in 2014 when every house republican holding a storm-damaged district will be attacked for the delay. and the northeast will again be the first place the democrats will look to in their efforts to find vulnerable gop targets. susan, do you think that that's true, that a road map is being provided now to the democratic party for what's to come in the midterm? >> absolutely. when the republicans had a majority in the senate and how they built their majority in the house, it was through the northeast and they lost two seats in new hampshire in this last election. they lost a senate seat in massachusetts, lost a senate seat in maine, and they can't
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keep majorities or build a majority in the senate unless they open up a little bit more. look, the democrats did this out west. they ran pro-gun democrats out best because they knew that was the only way they could get seats out there. you can't be that doctrinaire and get and keep your seats. on the day the children went back to sandy hook, the newspaper that published the names and addresses of local gun holders wants to publish more. the first amendment meets the second amendment. that's ahead. [ male announcer ] we all make bad decisions. like say, gas station sushi. cheap is good. and sushi, good. but cheap sushi, not so good. it's like that super-low rate on not enough car insurance. pretty sketchy. ♪ and then there are the good decisions. like esurance.
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the first day of the 113th congress also marks the return of illinois senator mark kirk. senator kirk suffered a stroke last january but today he returned to congress and climbed the 45 steps of the united states capitol. kirk, a republican who first came to the senate in 2010 after winning a special election to fill out the last few months of barack obama's term, and then he won his own senate seat beginning in 2011. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] where do you turn for legal matters? at legalzoom, we've created a better place to handle your legal needs. maybe you have questions about incorporating a business you'd like to start. or questions about protecting your family with a will or living trust. and you'd like to find the right attorney to help guide you along, answer any questions and offer advice. with an "a" rating from the better business bureau
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hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. we're back. for the first time since the massacre at sandy hook elementary school in newtown, connecticut, students returned to classes today albeit at a
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different school in a neighboring town. in nearby westchester and rockland counties, suburbs of new york city, a controversy has erupted over the decision by a local newspaper to publish an interactive database of all residents with handgun permits. here is what that map looks like on their website. each red dot indicates someone with a handgun permit and if you click on one, it shows that person's name and address. now, the move sparked outrage by many, not just in suburban new york, but around the country. the newspaper, "the journal news," defended itself in a statement saying, quote, we knew publication of the database would be controversial but we felt sharing information about gun permits in our area was important in the aftermath of the newtown shootings. in nearby putnam county,
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officials refused to hand over information about handgun owners to the paper despite new york law saying that information is part of the public record. mary ellen o'dell is the putnam county executive. mark green is a radio talk show host and former public advocate of new york city. miss o'dell, if i were to walk into the office where those records are kept as a citizen of that community, i imagine i'd get access to them. so why shouldn't that same right extend to the local newspaper? >> well, it's a -- that's not really i think a fair example of what we're trying to argue against today. you know, we're really looking at this as a privacy issue. we're looking to make sure that our constituents' safety is primary, it's paramount to us in putnam county. most of our residents are law enforcement or first responders. we have a lot of veterans and, you know, we want to make sure that their families are safe and themselves, that they're not put at risk because of this. and i just want to say on the other side to this, it's not just about those who follow the process and who legally have
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obtained, you know, pistol permits. we're talking about those individuals, our residents, who choose not to have a weapon at home. we feel that this release of this database actually compromises their safety. >> would your success compromise other sunshine law provisions? i mean, the access we all enjoy to property tax records or political contributions or megan's law by way of example? if you're successful, might people now take a look at other in the internet age in which we live, other laws of access and say maybe we should do away with this or that? >> it's interesting, you know, when you take a look at this, the reason why i think that this has become such a heightened issue is just because of the times we're at. you know, social media now, the access of the internet that affords people quick information, and that's why we feel that our residents would be put at such a risk should their names and addresses be released in addition to those who are not. and, you know, really what we're saying here is this law is a law that could be, should be modified to just make sure that our residents, their families, their concerns are put first.
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modified to just make sure that our residents, their families, their concerns are put first. >> mark, what do you make of this? "the new york times," just to show you the depth of opinion, wrote about the controversy and was then swamped by reader reaction. one person who supported the paper's move wrote, "we who choose not to own guns have the right to know when we are sending our children into a house where guns are present or when we're speaking with someone who has deadly force easily within reach." on the other hand, somebody else wrote, "yes, the records are public, but most criminals are not going to be online looking to see if a particular address has an owner with a gun. it's nobody's damn business if i own a gun." sort it out for me. >> well, it is a neighbor's interest. even a law-abiding person, has a permit, has a gun. adam lanza stole a gun from his mother, who of course he then killed. so the issue is if we have -- i'm a lawyer. i'm a believer in the right of privacy. this is in the public domain. the information is publicly filed. of course, the newspaper had a
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right to publish public information. the issue is was it right as a matter of judgment for them to do it? if we have a megan's law, because i think almost everyone might agree that if you're a convicted child molester, a neighbor might want to know that because they're in your home safe but maybe they could hurt someone else. there's a spillover effect. same thing with guns. there may be people who think the more concealed weapons the better. fine. live in texas and florida. >> there are apps because my kids have shown them to me on my iphone where you can put in your geographic area and it brings up every perp who lives within miles. theoretically, people who would want to know whether there are gun owners in their area, and i'm not equating perps with gun owners -- >> well, thank you for that. >> -- they ought to have the same ability. maryellen, you want to respond to that? >> yeah, i don't think that it's fair to compare someone who legally obtained a pistol, a permitted handgun in their home,
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who actually took the time to do the training and made sure to follow through compliance and was vetted through the process to someone who's convicted, you know -- >> i'm not conflating one with the other. here's a better example. a better example is that if i wanted to take a look at the political contributions of all of my neighbors and if they wanted to take a look at mine they could easily do so because i've made lawful contributions and so have they. all aboveboard. it's that same access -- >> you're comparing apples to oranges here really. what we're really saying here is we took an oath, we swore, my elected official colleague, county clerk dennis, myself, senator greg ball, senator mccats, to uphold the law. what we're asking for is people to look into how this invasion of privacy, if you will, can put our residents and their families at risk and at harm. you know, we have a lot of first responders -- >> mark, very quickly -- >> you have -- >> take the final word. i only have 30 seconds. go ahead and i'll give it to you. >> look, people who live around
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there feel at risk. it's not that they're law abiding and got a permit. fine. adam lanza didn't get a permit. and if we publish private donations because it could buy congressmen, if we publish where sex offenders live, well, then as a neighbor i want to know how many handguns are in my area which could be stolen and put at risk my family. i -- >> to be continued. i have to shut it down. it's a great debate. >> the law requires it be made public. change the law. >> maryellen odell, thank you for being here. mark green, we appreciate your time. >> you bet. thank you. >> when we return, allow me to finish with an update on the penn state scandal and a case of "hardball" politics. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. who are you again? daniels, sir. accounts. who's this? this is daniels. key player over in accounts. ♪ daniels. director of accounts. [ male announcer ] the all-new nissan sentra. [ daniels ] good luck in there!
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let he had finish tonight with an update about penn state. last june jerry sandusky was convicted of those 45 of 48 counts that he faced involving ten young victims. and then last july the ncaa, relying on the investigation by former fbi director louis freeh, fined penn state $60 million. penn state did not appeal. and at the time pennsylvania governor tom corbett, a member of the board of trustees, also accepted the decision by the ncaa. well, yesterday corbett filed a lawsuit against the ncaa for what he now calls overreaching and unlawful sanctions placed on penn state. and he seeks to set aside the $60 million fine. but is the lawsuit really a case
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of hardball politics? here are a few considerations. first, corbett is up for re-election in 2014, and right now his poll numbers are poor. penn state fans, they're an important part of the pennsylvania electorate. second, corbett didn't consult the newly elected attorney general, kathleen kane. instead he hired an outside law firm. third, when kane takes office in two weeks, it's expected that she'll deliver on a campaign promise to investigate why the sandusky investigation, which was begun by corbett in 2008, took so long. as buzz bissinger noted in today's daily beast, kane insists that in normal circumstances a predatory animal would have been arrested after the first allegation was proven to be founded. that would have gotten sandusky off the street and nothing would have precluded the state police from further investigation. but instead a grand jury was impaneled. it went on for more than three years, which kept the predatory animal free to


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